Q&A: On archetypes for shorter fencers

Hi Sydney Sabre,

My name is Vik. I am a sabre fencer in the USA. I started when I was around 10, quit for many years and returned to the sport earlier this year as a rookie once again. I fence at my university’s club team. It’s a great environment, but I do not have a coach, so I am teaching myself using online resources. The articles and videos you post are invaluable, and I want to thank you for making them available. There are many touches I win because of something you explained in an article or video, and I know there will be many more in the future. I love how you break things down so scientifically- its how I like to think about things.

I would like to buy the book- I’ve seen you mention that there might be an e-book version. Does it exist? If it does, I would really like to buy it that way. Having a digital version would be veryhelpful and convenient. If not, I obviously understand.

My second question is more fencing technique specific. It is very long, so if you’re too busy to answer thats alright, don’t worry about it. I am a shorter male fencer (around 5’7 or 169 cm) and I read your post about archetypes- I think week 41 of the course structure you explain. Since I am often fencing people around 6’3 a lot of what I learn is in the context of people with much more reach than me. Does this limit what archetype would be smart for me to specialize in to. When I think about it intuitively, I would assume smaller fencers have to be watchers. However, I feel naturally drawn to being more of a grinder Gu Bongil type of fencer where I abuse my atheleticism to its fullest extent and scare my opponent the best I can. Given this, hat is the smartest way to go about finding/choosing my archetype? Are the archetypes height/size limited (just curious about all 3)? Maybe this is covered in the book. I don’t want to have to unlearn a lot of things down the line because I am fencing suboptimally to what my physique would make me more naturally inclined to do.

Best wishes,

Vikram from Rutgers

Hi Vikram,

Good to hear from you and very happy to hear that the articles and videos are useful.

Re: the Book – unfortunately, we only have the paperback version left from the last print run. I’ve been reluctant to publish it especially before the last of my A-grade friends retires – and the guy is still going. Maybe after the next Olympics.

Re: archetypes for a sabreur of shorter stature – there’s nothing stopping you from playing some variant of the grinder archetype. You’ll just need to be clear about what the elements of success are and how to mitigate or avoid situations where your shorter stature puts you at a disadvantage.

First, a brief recap of how we think about the grinder game from a purely physical perspective:

1. Make simul or better. This means you have to a) lunge earlier, and b) hit at a more correct distance – i.e. end your lunge and hit with the foible of your sabre, rather than say the forte of your sabre – than your opponent.
2. Do 1 at the minimum intensity required, e.g. 30% of your maximum effort.
3. Gradually increase your intensity to continue making simul or better.

If your opponent is inexperienced, the above will enable you to keep racking up points until they lose. Against more sophisticated opponents, the next part of the grinder game is as follows:

4. While you’re still at moderate intensity, e.g. < 60% of your maximum effort, watch for your opponent to attempt a parry or make you fall short. If so, either:
   1. Abort your lunge and convert to a march or chase with priority to hit them.
   2. Extend your lunge, e.g. Gu Bon Gil style, and hit them.

Which of a) or b) you decide will depend on athletic ability, preference, and your intensity level at that moment. In general: march/chase = less athletic, have a faster reaction speed, and at lower intensity; extension = more athletic, slower reaction speed, higher intensity. Gu and similar fencers do both, but are notable for being able to extend.

5. If you start building up to higher intensities, e.g. >60 % of your maximum effort, you won’t be able to convert to march/chase or extend. This is when you should either:
   1. Drop to lower intensities.
   2. Force the intensity higher for your opponent (i.e. so they are operating at 80-100% of their maximum effort), then make them fall-short or otherwise fail their attack.

For athletic but shorter sabreurs against taller opponents, the main difficulty with the above is compelling your opponent to operate at higher intensities than you: being taller, it is easier for them to make simul/attack at a lower % effort than you. For example, they can make simul at their 30% max effort while you have to be at 60% of your max effort.

My students in this situation typically incorporate 3 things into their repertoires to compensate:

1. Forward Parries: which compel the opponent to operate a lower intensity to disengage or cutover attack.
2. Pommelling¹: to offset the opponent’s range advantage
3. Counter-parries: to win points if the opponent succeeds in making you fall short.

You may wish to consider incorporating those or alternative moves into your repertoire.

Specific answers to your specific questions below:

Q: What is the smartest way to go about finding/choosing my archetype?

An Archetype is fundamentally just a way to packaging a set of moves together to form your repertoire (the set of moves you can do) and style (how you put those moves together). Hence my advice is to use the same approach as you would for selecting your moves:

1. Personality: do you like the archetype and the moves required to make it work?
2. Physicality: can do you do those moves?
3. Partners / Competitors: does the archetype work against the people you fence against?

Q: Are the archetypes height/size limited (just curious about all 3)?

Archetypes are not strictly limited by height, size or other physical attributes per se, but some archetypes are easier to do with certain physical traits than others. Grinders, for example, favour range and speed and a good sense of distance and rhythm; by contrast, agility and upper body strength and twitch reflexes are less important. It is possible to be a short, slow Grinder with a poor sense of distance and rhythm…but you’d best have a repertoire that compensates.

Best,

John

1. This means to hold your sabre down the distal end of the grip, to maximise sabre reach. Your pinky finger should be in contact with the guard tail / guard sleeve; you should not be holding the sabre pommel itself. ︎